File talk:The Great Secret.pdf

Originally on User talk:Peter

Discussion fits here better

You're wasting your time and degrading the quality of the rest of the site with that "Great Secret" business. The objector is a customer, a consumer. He could have been badly treated by British Universities but there is no solution. Ultimately, they're entitled not to sell to someone they don't like, especially in the context of protecting other young people. The only protection he might have is if there were racism involved, and there wasn't. Do something useful as here. Toolbox 18:39, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Disagree on the 'Big Secret' file. It's not the best written but is a fairly accurate description of a similar Syndrome in US Universities - stray outside unwritten but well understood boundaries (like criticising Zionist Israel or questioning the official 911 narrative for example) and pace Norman Finkelstein and Stephen Jones, you are likely to find your academic career at an end. I haven't posted it because I agree with it either, rather because it is Establishment skeptic/critical and has a point. As for the Wikipedia article, I seriously doubt that table will make it to the stable version of the Assange page - and I haven't the time or the inclination to bang my head against the Wikipedia wall. --Peter P 20:33, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, comparing Norman Finkelstein with Stephen Jones also badly degrades careful scholarly work by comparing it with conspiracy trash. While one would love to defend an academic who was sacked from the Mormon University (the same place he graduated from 30 years earlier) over his 911 troofing, his plight bears no comparison with the lifelong victimisation suffered by targets of the Zionists. Toolbox 14:55, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I didn't compare Finkelstein with Jones. I cited both as examples of Establishment victimisation as the price for promoting evidence and opinion outside the bounds of approved Establishment discourse. It is you who are doing the comparing; sporting a pretty orthodox, establishment contempt for that oh-so-convenient - and utterly meaningless - euphemism 'Conspiracy trash' in the process. --Peter P 15:12, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Jones is not a victim of either the local or national Establishment. We don't exactly know how he managed to lose the confidence of an institution he'd been closely linked with all of his career but his entire active 911 experience really only covered a few months (Dec 2005 to Jan 2007, the date he took retirement), it was a symptom and not a cause. Toolbox 20:36, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

New Topic

I've read through this thread many times and I'm having a hard time following. Peter, you are the inside man. I would like to understand this topic from your perspective. Peter writes "I haven't posted it because I agree with it either, rather because it is Establishment skeptic/critical and has a point". Are you implying that you do not agree with this paper or are you just being non-committal? If you do not agree, with which parts do you not agree and why? One thing that is not clear from the article is whether these pressures are being applied to undergrad students or graduate students. If this type of pressure is being applied to undergraduates then this would represent an major escalation of the type of Academic corruption we have in the United States. Or maybe I'm wrong. Are undergrads in the US routinely run out of our Universities for voicing wrong opinions?--SparrowLegs 10:08, 30 April 2011 (IST)

My original comments above were written very soon after the first anonymous upload. I have since come to know KG quite well - at least in so far as his grievances are concerned. There is a lot to read through and his 'unknown' status means that few will plough through it. However, it is all there for the record. My judgement is that he is spot-on on on pretty well all counts. The UK SIS's do indeed have their tentacles into the nuts and bolts of higher education, especially when it comes to things impinging on foreign policy which is a closed book to the mass of the population who have little choice but to accept the FP Establishment at its word - or not and button their lip - as the case may be. The 'SAC' program he outlines is real; senior academics know it and well understand the career implication should they make too many waves. Kevin names names and the SIS's don't like that; he has effectively been warned about it by the current chairman of the D Notice Committee in fact. There is enough information in the files he has supplied to enable any enterprising investigative journalist to produce a very embarrassing story for our smug Establishment - problem is there are few, if any, UK MSM publications that would run with it. --Peter P 14:29, 30 April 2011 (IST)

Yes, there is a lot more material to look at that I did not know was there. Apparently, at least some of this centers around an Oxford undergraduate correspondence course the appellant was taking while living in Canada. To put that kind of strong arm pressure on an undergraduate student is outrageous. If it were me, I would be in fits of anger too. As I see it, it's equally outrageous that the tenured faculty are censored, as here in the US but if nobody complains... naturally the next to be censored are the undergraduate students, themselves.--SparrowLegs 01:06, 1 May 2011 (IST)