Difference between revisions of "Talk:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine"
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| − | + | [[Talk:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine/Old|Archived discussion are here]] | |
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| − | : | + | [[user:Jun|Jun]], the section 'Vanishing people', what exactly do you want to say there? I hardly follow. And is a link to one (not small) Wikipedia article the citation for that? Please have a look. -- [[User:Sunvalley|Sunvalley]] ([[User talk:Sunvalley|talk]]) 00:08, 13 July 2023 (UTC) |
| − | ::: | + | ::: I tried merging the "PMC" Underground bases and deportations claims a year ago, but WP changed it and split all those parts before I added all refs. I just kept the Deportations. The [[D.U.M.B]] (see; https://theconversation.com/going-underground-ukraines-subterranean-fighters-highlight-the-benefit-and-long-history-of-tunnels-in-warfare-181454, https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/russia-ukraine-war-underground-cities-bakhmut-soledar-salt-mines-wagner-group-11959712.html & https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-shows-off-underground-base-for-himars/) and [[PMCs]]/[[Sleeper cell]]/miliatry abduction (added now)/hitmen network ([[Academi]], [[Wagner]] now have their own pages. A redirect and sub-header in the future will be enough for them. Good catch. [[User:Jun|Jun]] ([[User talk:Jun|talk]]) 19:07, 13 July 2023 (UTC) |
| − | == | + | == Russian sources - == |
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| − | + | I can't find anything for this, and it's a month, and we've almost reached the 50k limit, so for now, I've removed the following [[user:Sunvalley]]. | |
| − | :: | + | The attempt at Kiev was thought of as a diversion by [[Scott Ritter]], in order to force Ukraine to split focus and power to some extent away from the main battle line.<ref>the explanation starts about 10:15 into the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN7o-ThhFfY The first casualty of War is Truth (Live w/Scott Ritter)], The Duran YT channel, Apr 4, 2022</ref> A Russian military commander later clarified that they thought the mood in the population would swing in their favor, but nothing of the sort did happen even remotely, so they adjusted strategy accordingly.<ref>Vladimir Shamanov - retired Colonel General of the Russian Armed Forces, from May 2009 to October 2016 Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Airborne Troops, https://de.rt.com/europa/139630-luftlandetruppen-chef-ad-zum-verlauf-militaeroperation/ - automated translation: "In the interview, the general also acknowledged mistakes made by the military leadership. At the beginning of the operation, he said, the Russian army expected to be "greeted with flowers" in Ukraine. This "component" had already been overcome."</ref> [[User:Jun|Jun]] ([[User talk:Jun|talk]]) 12:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC) |
| − | + | :updated with the missing links today -- [[User:Sunvalley|Sunvalley]] ([[User talk:Sunvalley|talk]]) 10:05, 3 September 2023 (UTC) | |
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| − | + | ==50k== | |
| − | + | Per [[Style guide]], will everyone please try to keep the article under 50k bytes? When new content has to be added, please be reminded to move less relevant content to other pages. We still have 30% of stubs. Even 9-11, Covid or all US elections pages combined have less bytes. | |
| + | So, when over 50k bytes, just ''try'' to move some content and leave a forwarded redirect: {{FA|Example}} | ||
| + | There is no mass message extension yet to edit, so please be reminded that in the future content may be moved with reasoning placed here, as in the past. Like I did with 3 sub-pages, more sub-pages are welcome, changing the names of the current one as well. | ||
| + | [[User:Jun|Jun]] ([[User talk:Jun|talk]]) 04:15, 22 August 2023 (UTC) | ||
| − | == | + | ==Sex trafficking== |
| − | + | From the current version of the article: | |
| − | + | Demand for Ukrainian women by VIPedophile networks was reported by European Commissioner Ylva Johansson to be sky-high.[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60891801] | |
| − | + | The BBC link does not mention European Commissioner Ylva Johansson, it is more on the ground reporting. What I find on short notice is a general statement by Johansson about trafficking early on (21/03/2022) [https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/21/huge-risk-ukrainian-children-can-fall-into-trafficking-says-eu-commissioner]; nothing in there really speaks about what we would term VIPedophile (the VIPedophile phenomenon is included in the general area of trafficking - that is understood but still). I doubt she would speak about it at all .. so when there is a distinction between sex-trafficking and VIPedophile the text should not conflate it. | |
| − | + | --[[User:Sunvalley|Sunvalley]] ([[User talk:Sunvalley|talk]]) 11:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC) | |
| − | + | :Good catch. I added the term because of the Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons accusations in the last ref; https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-trafficking-in-persons-report/ukraine/ that accused dozens of UKR officials of kidnapping orphans in sex trafficking networks, which would be enough for a VIPedophile suspicion. I moved the claim by Johansson as that;s by her - at best - vaguely implied - to ''suggest'' the claim as alleged or hinted by the OTMCTP report which are more sufficient. This report notes (as non-english sources are in general not preferable per style guide) that high-profile cases or sex-trafficking networks by important civil servants included; "Kyiv City police counter-trafficking unit, three police officers, recruiters accused of trafficking Ukrainians into a drug-trafficking ring in Russia, and a teacher at a government-run boarding school for orphans in Kharkiv who attempted to sell one of her students" [[User:Jun|Jun]] ([[User talk:Jun|talk]]) 12:24, 12 September 2023 (UTC) | |
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==References== | ==References== | ||
{{reflist}} | {{reflist}} | ||
Latest revision as of 12:24, 12 September 2023
Jun, the section 'Vanishing people', what exactly do you want to say there? I hardly follow. And is a link to one (not small) Wikipedia article the citation for that? Please have a look. -- Sunvalley (talk) 00:08, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
- I tried merging the "PMC" Underground bases and deportations claims a year ago, but WP changed it and split all those parts before I added all refs. I just kept the Deportations. The D.U.M.B (see; https://theconversation.com/going-underground-ukraines-subterranean-fighters-highlight-the-benefit-and-long-history-of-tunnels-in-warfare-181454, https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/russia-ukraine-war-underground-cities-bakhmut-soledar-salt-mines-wagner-group-11959712.html & https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-shows-off-underground-base-for-himars/) and PMCs/Sleeper cell/miliatry abduction (added now)/hitmen network (Academi, Wagner now have their own pages. A redirect and sub-header in the future will be enough for them. Good catch. Jun (talk) 19:07, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Russian sources -
I can't find anything for this, and it's a month, and we've almost reached the 50k limit, so for now, I've removed the following user:Sunvalley.
The attempt at Kiev was thought of as a diversion by Scott Ritter, in order to force Ukraine to split focus and power to some extent away from the main battle line.[1] A Russian military commander later clarified that they thought the mood in the population would swing in their favor, but nothing of the sort did happen even remotely, so they adjusted strategy accordingly.[2] Jun (talk) 12:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
50k
Per Style guide, will everyone please try to keep the article under 50k bytes? When new content has to be added, please be reminded to move less relevant content to other pages. We still have 30% of stubs. Even 9-11, Covid or all US elections pages combined have less bytes. So, when over 50k bytes, just try to move some content and leave a forwarded redirect:
- Full article: Example
- Full article: Example
There is no mass message extension yet to edit, so please be reminded that in the future content may be moved with reasoning placed here, as in the past. Like I did with 3 sub-pages, more sub-pages are welcome, changing the names of the current one as well. Jun (talk) 04:15, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Sex trafficking
From the current version of the article:
Demand for Ukrainian women by VIPedophile networks was reported by European Commissioner Ylva Johansson to be sky-high.[1]
The BBC link does not mention European Commissioner Ylva Johansson, it is more on the ground reporting. What I find on short notice is a general statement by Johansson about trafficking early on (21/03/2022) [2]; nothing in there really speaks about what we would term VIPedophile (the VIPedophile phenomenon is included in the general area of trafficking - that is understood but still). I doubt she would speak about it at all .. so when there is a distinction between sex-trafficking and VIPedophile the text should not conflate it. --Sunvalley (talk) 11:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
- Good catch. I added the term because of the Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons accusations in the last ref; https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-trafficking-in-persons-report/ukraine/ that accused dozens of UKR officials of kidnapping orphans in sex trafficking networks, which would be enough for a VIPedophile suspicion. I moved the claim by Johansson as that;s by her - at best - vaguely implied - to suggest the claim as alleged or hinted by the OTMCTP report which are more sufficient. This report notes (as non-english sources are in general not preferable per style guide) that high-profile cases or sex-trafficking networks by important civil servants included; "Kyiv City police counter-trafficking unit, three police officers, recruiters accused of trafficking Ukrainians into a drug-trafficking ring in Russia, and a teacher at a government-run boarding school for orphans in Kharkiv who attempted to sell one of her students" Jun (talk) 12:24, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
References
- ↑ the explanation starts about 10:15 into the video The first casualty of War is Truth (Live w/Scott Ritter), The Duran YT channel, Apr 4, 2022
- ↑ Vladimir Shamanov - retired Colonel General of the Russian Armed Forces, from May 2009 to October 2016 Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Airborne Troops, https://de.rt.com/europa/139630-luftlandetruppen-chef-ad-zum-verlauf-militaeroperation/ - automated translation: "In the interview, the general also acknowledged mistakes made by the military leadership. At the beginning of the operation, he said, the Russian army expected to be "greeted with flowers" in Ukraine. This "component" had already been overcome."
